Preserving Punk: Brian Gorsegner’s Ancient Artifax
You might know Brian Gorsegner as the vocalist for Night Birds, which had their final show at the end of 2022, or from his tour booking company Wired Booking whose roster includes Alice Bag Band, Career Suicide, Generacion Suicida, and Rich Kids on LSD (RKL) among many others.These days, he’s best known as the force behind Ancient Artifax, an Instagram account where Gorsegner posts his rare punk finds and (thankfully) lists many of them for sale.
From ‘Ancient Artifax:’ Nathan Strejcek’s leather jacket and homemade Discharge badge. Image: Christopher Patrick Ernst.
With his book Ancient Artifax published by Radio Raheem due for release later this summer, the social media account will expand into a 242-page hardcover with photographs and commentary from people who were part of the birth of hardcore in the Midwest, DC, and NYC scenes of the 70s and 80s. Given his dedication to conserving and sharing items from this era and with the upcoming book release events he has planned, we were curious about what keeps Brian going as a self-described “punk artifact enthusiast/collector/facilitator” and how record collecting and punk itself has changed in the digital age.
Cover of ‘Ancient Artifax’ book. Published by Radio Raheem via Deathwish.
Through the years, what keeps you interested in being a collector and archivist?
Brian Gorsegner : It's just my favorite thing. Ever since I discovered punk and obviously missed the first couple of waves by a couple decades, going back and collecting artifacts from the original timeframe, that was my way to be connected to it. Getting a first pressing of a record takes some imagination. You imagine where that record was purchased: was it at a show or was it at some small record shop? Or a flyer, was it off a telephone pole on the Bowery in the late 70s, early 80s? You know, all that stuff. I love the music and I've played in my own bands for a couple decades. I'm a booking agent so I work with bands constantly; basically everything I do in life is pretty revolved around punk. I always was very attracted to the early culture and that connection with a tangible artifact. At some point, my daughter will want to go to college, so I'll likely have to cash out my record collection. But until that point, I don't ever see myself getting disinterested, it would be a pretty huge– I would have to find Jesus or something to all of a sudden just get rid of all my shit. I love it.
You were collecting in the late 90s, early 2000s?
BG : Yeah, aggressively collecting at that point.
How has record collecting changed since the early 2000s?
BG : Well, one, I guess, just the age dynamic. I think there's less and less younger folks who are getting into punk in general and, therefore, less younger folks that are collecting punk artifacts. And then naturally, anybody who started collecting when they were teens, 20s, or 30s, are now in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. It just starts to become an older person's game. And with that comes older person finances. So things that somebody didn't want when it was affordable, now you have three adults with, perhaps, adult budgets who are going after the same item. And now a Misfits record that might have been $400 when I started collecting might sell for $1,500. I think that's the main thing, once you shift from my budget when I was 20 and I was working at a screen printing shop, it was a lot for me to spend $300 on a record and people before me, it was a lot for them to spend $100. And before them, it was a lot for them to spend $20. So that's a natural progression that as time goes on, the scarcity of these items becomes more and more and the people that are looking for them become less than less. I think some budgets of those people become increasingly high and that's kind of a bummer because I don't just want it to be an old rich person's game. That's not fun and obviously, that's not at the heart of any of this stuff. But I also think it's simple economics that it works that way. So I try to do the stuff I can to curb that a little bit and keep it fun and keep it a young person's game, because I remember how important it was for me when I was a kid to score something really cool and really exciting. So largely, I think that's been the shift in the collecting, people just see the increase in prices. You look at the graphs and the charts over time and shit’s going up and it kind of makes sense. In the back of my head, I always wonder: if the next generations don't care about this stuff, is it going to hit a point where it just drops off? Because eventually, old people kick the bucket and who's going to be next to take care of this shit?
Images: Christopher Patrick Ernst.
“So I try to do the stuff I can to curb that a little bit and keep it fun and keep it a young person’s game, because I remember how important it was for me when I was a kid to score something really cool and really exciting.”
That brings me to something I wonder about a lot, which is: what could we stand to learn from looking back at these flyers, tour posters, and other music ephemera from the past?
BG : I mean, that was one of my primary interests in doing a book in the first place because I think if you don't document some of this less documented stuff, then why would somebody pick it up and run with it if they're unaware of how cool and how interesting it is and it was? I think that's why we need to make an effort. The records stand for themselves. A good album is a good album and I think some of that stuff is timeless. I don't think there will ever be a point in time where people aren't hearing the first Ramones record and recognizing it for its greatness, but I think a lot of the behind the scenes stuff that was so unique and interesting, specifically to the first wave of hardcore, that is what I wanted to try to portray and just get that point across because it's exciting, it's special, and it's really cool. It’s not like I’m some genius who is documenting this for the first time but I think any effort to continue doing so is important.
Correspondence ephemera featured in 'Ancient Artifax' book. Images: Christopher Patrick Ernst.
“The records stand for themselves. A good album is a good album and I think some of that stuff is timeless. I don’t think there will ever be a point in time where people aren’t hearing the first Ramones record and recognizing it for its greatness, but I think a lot of the behind the scenes stuff that was so unique and interesting, specifically to the first wave of hardcore, that is what I wanted to try to portray and just get that point across because it’s exciting, it’s special, and it’s really cool.”
Why do you think it is that you and other archivists see the value in these items that the original artists and owners sometimes seem to have forgotten about?
BG : Well, to me, that's the beauty of the whole thing. If The Beatles were to make a limited item, at some point they would know it was limited, that it was valuable, that it's desired–and that's the major mainstream world. This stuff was made out of necessity in small quantities because there was only a small quantity of people who gave a shit. So the beauty of this whole thing is, at the beginning of a counterculture, you don't recognize that what you're doing is important. It takes time and recognition to basically verify, ‘Yes, this is fucking important.’ From my point of view, I say that because it's fucking important to me because I discovered this stuff and it launched me to do my own band, it launched me to make my own flyer to become a participant in this thing and that's the beauty of hardcore. So it's important for me personally because I have this connection and a lot of other people do as well. But that's the excitement for me to go dig out these original boxes of cut and paste flyers and things like that. It's so fucking cool that people don't recognize what it is because they weren't doing it for monetary reasons, they weren't doing it to get famous; they were doing it out of necessity. Nobody would do it for them so they had to do it themselves and the reason they were doing bands in the first place was just this explosion of artistic output and emotion and energy and it was fucking kids who didn't have an outlet, oftentimes coming from tough situations, having religious ideals shoved down their throats or bullshit nine to five jobs. It was kids discovering themselves and not liking what was going on in the world and not liking Reagan, creating this whole thing and their output is the beginning of this thing that is so important. So the fact that you can draw those direct lines back to where it all started and then those people still have things in Adidas shoe boxes in their fucking attics… It's only another 30 years that we get to talk to these people and make these discoveries before–not to be bleak, but–that's a human lifespan. So this stuff goes in the trash and people get buried and you never get to have these conversations.
I'm not saying everybody should think it's important or everybody should care. Again, it's very important to me and I care a lot. So that's my interest in documenting it. It's funny because I get shit all the time from people telling me how I should do this or how I should do that or I shouldn't do this or whatever. And again, it's kinda like, fuck you, like I'm doing this because I love it and I'm doing it how I want to do it based on my own set of morals and beliefs and all that stuff. You can say that by the time that I was collecting this stuff, a Negative Approach record was already a valuable record. Sometimes it takes a band selling out a big show to say, ‘Oh, this band must be important, because they can do X, Y and Z.’ Or it might take, ‘Oh, this record sells for this much money, so it must be important.’ But once you discover that stuff, you follow all these breadcrumbs and you start making all these other connections to maybe the stuff that is not as praised, but is as great. People just ache to find this stuff. We put out a record that coincided with my book by this band called The Radicals which was like a pre Cause For Alarm 1981 New Jersey thing. To me, it's still equally as cool and as important to the culture as the bands whose records sell for thousands of dollars because we’re still making discoveries. This is still a band who was just like, ‘Nobody's gonna care about us, nobody's gonna give a shit.’ But they were coming from the same place and they were operating in the same way. The fact that we can still find stuff like that, it’s what keeps me going to find stuff that no one knows exists. And again, we only have so much longer, in my opinion, to make these discoveries before shit ends up in the landfill.
‘Ancient Artifax’ hardcover book with The Radicals’ ‘Ready to Die’ 7” blue vinyl.
I know a lot of the bands that you focused on in the book are regionally specific. Would you ever consider doing this kind of collecting focused on other regions like UK punk?
BG : Oh, in a perfect world, I would absolutely love to do it. A lot of what I do now is due to access and it's just a very organic thing. And again, I don't do this for a living, so it has to be organic; it can't be a crazy struggle. I just don't have the time available to do that. So a lot of what it is right now, it's literally been as simple as running into somebody in the grocery store who says ‘You're wearing an Agnostic Front shirt–did you see them?’ then you strike up a conversation and you find out that so and so did this fanzine in 1984. Living here–I live in New Jersey–it's the people that I have access to that a lot of times is what will initiate something like that. If there was endless time and resources? Man, there's so many scenes that I would love to do this with. But again, I'm hyper-focused here at the moment because of proximity and accessibility.
Makes total sense to me. One of the things I wonder when I see the rare records that you find is, as a collector, what's your policy on listening to the records you collect–especially the rare ones?
BG : I play everything unless I have reason to believe that something is unplayed and then that's a thing where it's just cool to me that it's gone that long being unplayed and it's not like I haven't heard whatever it is–unless I haven't heard it–in which case obviously, I have to listen to it. If I know something is unplayed–that's not like that common or anything–but otherwise, no, I'll listen to anything. People say shit like that and it's like, how fucking rough are you treating your records that you're afraid to listen to a valuable record? I mean, it's not like you're skating on an un-skated skateboard. Or that you're wearing an unworn t-shirt to a fucking Gwar concert. You're just listening to a record, it's a pretty uh
It's a minimal contact sport.
BG : It is a minimal contact sport, yeah. I love listening to records and it's just very mellow and chill and no harm will be done, but I don't give a fuck, I'll listen to a $10,000 record. Part of what really got me into early pressings and initial pressings when I started is because when you start collecting, it's whatever is in the record shop, so maybe you're buying a reissue. I bought a collection from a guy who did a fanzine in the early 80s and when I bought his record collection, it was so many of these first pressings and it occurred to me, even when I was playing something like a first pressing of the first Big Star album, which I had never heard to that point. It's such a cool experience to be like, ‘Okay, I missed this by decades, but I am experiencing hearing this for the first time exactly the way that I would have experienced it had I been there the day the record came out.’ That to me was just, dorky, but pretty thrilling. And still, to this day, I love reissues. I love the fact that they're accessible and affordable to anybody and everybody who wants them. When I buy a collection it's so fucking fun and especially when it's something that I'm not super familiar with, because again, then you're truly having that experience of hearing something that is unknown, wondering ‘What is this gonna sound like when the needle hits?’ It’s the greatest thing. So of course, a lot of times that ends up being a valuable record, if it's a first pressing of something like that. So no, I'll play the shit out of expensive records all day.
Teen Idles flyers collage. Image: Christopher Patrick Ernst.
“ I play everything unless I have reason to believe that something is unplayed and then that’s a thing where it’s just cool to me that it’s gone that long being unplayed and it’s not like I haven’t heard whatever it is–unless I haven’t heard it–in which case obviously, I have to listen to it.”
What do you think is the best hardcore 7” and what are your top five?
BG : It might be a boring answer, but my answer would probably have to be Minor Threat Filler (1981). Just the production, the playing, the song writing, everything from top to bottom. That was one that I’m sure I wasn't hearing a first pressing of the first time I got it. I was hearing whatever CD was available at my local CD store. But that one hit fucking super hard. I'm still straight edge, I'm 40, and I have a Minor Threat tattoo. That was just a very impactful record. When I started collecting, that was one that I was like, I have to have the fucking red cover Filler. So that one was absolutely huge for me. Another one that was a later life discovery but was huge because I just think it's ahead of its time but it was actually happening in my backyard when I was born, is The Worst 45 (1982). They also did a 12-inch that's unbelievable, just fucking great. And again, I wasn't hearing that for the first time on original vinyl, I was hearing it when it was being reissued or maybe a cassette. That was one that I do think stands up against some of the best American hardcore, but that one's especially cool to me just because of where it's from. That's an unsung hero from my backyard. The Necros I.Q. 32 record (1981) that one and the Negative Approach EP (1982) being the two big Midwest records, but again, songwriting, production–it just doesn't get any fucking better. It's the thing that bands nowadays can try to create but you can't create that in the lab and the magic of some of that shit is the sloppiness that can only be played by a teenager. Honest lyrics that can be as simple as being frustrated with society, but again, when it's coming out of the mouth of a 17 or an 18 year old, I remember what that felt like and it just has that impact. So that's four, right: Necros, Negative Approach, Minor Threat, The Worst. Number five, I might have to think and get back to you on number five.
But number one is Minor Threat.
BG : It has to be. From the opening chords of that it's just fucking insane.
Do you have any favorite artists in terms of album artwork or flyer design?
BG : Yeah, a ton. I really love all the flyers that Larissa Strickland from L-Seven was doing in the Midwest. If you asked me that when I was 18 my answers would strictly be about the aesthetic of a flyer and obviously that's still largely taken into consideration, but because of all the studying and deep diving I've done into this stuff the past bunch of years, that answer changes and there's other factors in it. I just think Larissa is another one of those unsung heroes who played such a huge role. Everybody knows Necros and Meatmen and Negative Approach but L-Seven doesn't get enough love and especially Larissa, she was making all those classic flyers and was just such a fucking brilliant artist. So I absolutely love her stuff. I mean, I'd probably have to go regionally to really do it correctly. All the early DC stuff like Jeff Nelson obviously had a really cool aesthetic and then everybody that was trying to knock off his shit I think looks really cool and archaic and just in a really great, childish kind of way. Kevin Crowley from The Abused, that was the first crop of original flyers that I wanted to chase down because he had numbered them and it made it a collectible thing to get all the early Kevin Crowley Abused flyers. He's just such a fucking cool artist. Radio Raheem, the people that did my book, did a really nice set of prints of his original flyers. I don't think you can get those anymore but that was a nice way to be able to celebrate those early flyers without having to pay a couple hundred bucks apiece. I have to add, Randy “Biscuit” Turner from Big Boys made some of my favorite flyers ever.
Original Pushead artwork for June 25, 1983 Wilson Center flier. Image: Christopher Patrick Ernst.
What do you think about the fact that flyers are primarily digital these days, many of them never being printed? We're essentially making flyers for a screen instead of the strategy of bringing the printed flyers to record stores and cafés or taping them to bathroom walls and telephone poles.
BG : I'd love to scream at the wall as to why there should still be physical flyers and I definitely think there should be. But also the fact of the matter is, it's just not as necessary as it was, even when I started going to shows in the 90s, early 2000s. The pro and con to it at this point is you have access to so many more eyeballs by putting artwork into a digital platform, whether it's Instagram or Facebook or whatever, but now there's such an overwhelming amount of shit to look at. I almost feel like it's gone full circle where it's more effective to hand somebody a physical flyer again. You actually want somebody to take two seconds to pay attention to it. I recently did some of that old school guerilla marketing for the Ancient Artifax book release party that I'm doing in New Jersey and I went and printed physical copies. I dropped them off at local smoothie places and coffee places and bagel places and pizza places–everything around where the event’s gonna be. I've had people hit me up and say, ‘Hey, I saw the poster in the window’ or whatever but nobody's going to text you and say, ‘Hey, I saw the poster on Instagram.’ On one hand, I would never complain about the accessibility of hard-to-find music on the internet. Was it a cool thing, before the ease and accessibility, to have to dig to discover? Of course. I only got to experience that for a short period before the internet but it was obviously super cool. On the other hand, is there a huge advantage to an endless supply of stuff? Yes, obviously. I never would have been able to discover or make a book or do any of this other shit if it wasn't for that so I'm not somebody that's ever going to complain about that stuff. Born in ‘83, I had just enough of that pre-experience but the majority of my adult life has obviously been post internet and post social media so I'm not really gonna complain about that stuff. It's the same with digital artwork. Would I love to see more people handing out flyers? Of course I would, but do I recognize why and the practicality of it? Yes, I do.
How do you stay organized between Wired Booking, Ancient Artifax, being a parent, and the Ancient Artifax book? On top of that, how do you stay excited about new music?
BG : Honestly, making a conscious effort to stop playing music was because I'm pretty good at being compartmentalized. Parenting is my number one thing and my main priority and then booking is my job. Ancient Artifax is my hobby and my extracurricular activity. So aside from that, I do fucking yard work and I do the dishes. I don't do a ton outside of those things. I'm trying to get better about actually seeing friends and going out and being more sociable but it's not that tough because everybody's got a day job with a lot of responsibilities. Wired is my day job and it is a lot to juggle but I’m my own boss, so I bring things on as I’m comfortable to make sure it doesn't become overwhelming. I have a couple of people that work with me who help with all the organization stuff. I'm not great at computers, so I brought somebody on–I don't come from the world of spreadsheets, I come from the world of actually touring myself and practicality. I love to strategize. I love the Chuck Dukowski Black Flag model: I didn't want to be on the road myself anymore but I still love being part of a team and doing all the strategizing and stuff that goes along with smart touring. So that's my motivation for that stuff but I have somebody else that does all the contracting and keeps all the spreadsheets together. We're a really good yin and yang.
My wife does all the financing, she does all our invoicing and things like that and she built our website. She's a great artist. She did all the handwritten title cards and edited the book. I've always, especially when I started building my own stuff, looked inwards at the relationships I already had. So I started booking bands that I was already friends with and had relationships with. If you're a band and you know somebody's capable, that they're good at X, Y, and Z, then hire them to do X, Y, and Z instead of chasing the shiny object and trying to be part of some big agency that you don't know anything about or some big record label that you don't know anything about. If you have a friend who is trustworthy, works hard, and puts out records, then put your records out with them. I think people get caught up in the shiny objects a lot of the time. So for me, I could try to find some fancy editor or I could work with my wife who's my favorite person in the world and the smartest person I know. We love to do projects together, so it was like, why the fuck wouldn't I do that. Same as the guy I brought on for Wired and same as so many of the bands that I chase. I go after bands that I've been friends with for a really long time and we have a great relationship. I love them, I know that they work hard, and I like what they stand for. That's what built the business. From that point on, bands will come to us or we might chase down certain things. Even if we just hear a new record and we like it, if they don't have representation, sometimes it works just as simply as that. I'm from New Jersey, I have a good sense of people and trusting relationships. I put a lot of eggs in that basket.
Necros flyers collage. Image: Christopher Patrick Ernst.
“ If you’re a band and you know somebody’s capable, that they’re good at X, Y, and Z, then hire them to do X, Y, and Z instead of chasing the shiny object and trying to be part of some big agency that you don’t know anything about or some big record label that you don’t know anything about.”
Do you have any thoughts on the recent No Values festival in Pomona, California? Is there any way to do a festival at that scale that maintains the ethos of punk?
BG : To be honest, I don't have the answer for you. I don't know what goes into making something like that. I know you can certainly do large scale DIY festivals without corporate funding. By all means, do I often scratch my head at how certain bands get to a certain level and don't take it upon themselves to do a little bit more guerrilla warfare? Yeah, I don't quite get that. I don't understand why you get to a certain level and, again, chase that shiny object where you team up with somebody who's throwing millions of dollars around but they're also connected to all this evil shit. I'm not here to say what punk is or what punk isn't; you know, one of the original goals of the Ramones was to make a million dollars. So I'll never say that punk didn't exist to make money because who am I to say that, but at the same time, it's my personal values that I put behind that shit and it's what punk taught me that I try to use laterally in my life towards other things. There's just bands that get to a certain point where it's like, you don't have to do it like that. At the same time, in America, if you told me it was because the insurance policies that have to be put in place to make something like that happen aren't feasible for a DIY operation, I'm sure there's blockades that are in the way that I am just not privy to or I don't understand. But what I can say is if I was in a position to be putting together something like that, I would absolutely try everything in my fucking power to do it our own way instead of signing on with anti-LGBTQ establishments who donate millions and millions of dollars to the Trump Organization. That, to me, would just never fucking be a thing.
I'm not coming down on bands for doing it. Every band is entitled to make their own decisions. I just hope that bands or management or agencies, or whomever, are at least pointing it out that when these fucking wolves in sheep's clothing come along and they want to take advantage of something that they haven't given a fuck about for so long, because it's so popular at this point, I would hope that people at least do their due diligence. But I think at the end of the day, a lot of people just don't fucking care. And I think that's a bummer. I'm not saying don't go and I’m not saying don't play. People are entitled to do whatever the fuck they want but I won't participate in that bullshit. I'd rather put my money in other places. It bums me out when people just don't think about where their money is going. You could go down a lot of rabbit holes: you went to this venue and it's owned by these people and there's a list of that stuff a fucking mile long. I do my due diligence as much as any regular-ass person can. But some of this shit is just so fucking apparent that it's just like, how are we letting these fuckers get away with this shit? In my personal opinion, it's like the most un-punk shit that there is and it's just a complete charade. It's embarrassing and it's just fucking lame. Either people don't know, or they know and they just don't care, but either way, it's fucking gross. I hope over time, some people take the time to recognize it, especially the bigger bands that just don't have to do that shit. The control is there as the people are coming to see them, not to see these fucking growth corporations. So I don't know, do your due diligence to put on your own fucking festival or do away with merchandise rates. These people have the power and they're just not recognizing it. Honestly, that's where if you want to call Grateful Dead ‘punk,’ yeah. I think the No Values festival is pretty aptly titled.
It's ‘punk’ to be a thoughtful consumer in a world that promotes overconsumption. It is powerful on every level. Like you said, we all have jobs and lives so it's hard to do the research on every single thing that we consume. But if you look at the bigger pieces, start there. I think that's a good way to go.
BG : Yeah. But with that said, you're looking at one fraction of the bigger picture. There's still backyard scenes going on, there's still basement scenes, this is still going on all over the world. There’s still teenagers making punk, there’s still people doing it from their heart, and not from their fucking piggy banks. I think the groundwork is there, whether we still want to consider shit like No Values fest ‘punk.’ Maybe we just don't need to label the shit. Again, hardcore started as a youth culture and there are still kids who are out there doing the shit better than everybody else and their hearts are in the right place. So, [there’s] always new great bands popping up. I hate when people bust out that ‘punk is dead’ bullshit. There's always people doing it the right way. The people that have been doing it for a long time or on a larger scale, I just think some of them need to wake the fuck up.
Button collection and Dead Boys ephemera. Image: Christopher Patrick Ernst.
Are you coming to Los Angeles to do any of the book release parties?
BG : I would like to. I'm going to do my first three August events and see what stock I have left and also see if I have money when those are all said and done because putting together an event in LA is a very financially losing experience and it's just so expensive to fly out there, to bring all this stuff out there, and stay up there. So I would like to, just for the sake of hanging out and seeing some LA friends and doing something fun. It really just comes down to practicality. So I will have a better idea once I see how my August events go and see how I want to plan for future ones after that.
You're doing a screening of The Decline of Western Civilization (1981) at one of the events, right?
BG : I'm doing that in New Jersey. And actually, I'm showing it in the movie theater that I worked at when I was a kid. So it's just a perfect full circle thing.
If you came out to Los Angeles, would you consider stopping in Las Vegas to be a tour guide for the Punk Rock Museum? I saw that you contributed items to the museum.
BG : Largely the tour guides they have are West Coast all star types. I don't think anybody out there gives a fuck about me or wants to hear from me on something like that. But yeah, I do have a bunch of my stuff in the museum.
Flyers for the August 2024 Ancient Artifax book release events.
Circling back: what’s your #5 top hardcore 7”?
BG : The Abused Loud And Clear 7” (1983).
In your travels on tour, I’m guessing you’ve stopped at record stores along the way. What’s your favorite record store in five different cities?
BG : Princeton Record Exchange in Princeton, NJ; Celebrated Summer Records in Baltimore, MD; Brooklyn Record Exchange in Brooklyn, NY; Vinyl Conflict Records in Richmond, VA; and Sorry State Records in Raleigh, NC.
Find Ancient Artifax on Instagram to keep up with Brian’s latest finds, items for sale, and updates on upcoming events. Grab a copy of the Ancient Artifax book at Deathwish and while you’re at it, give his band Night Birds a listen and check out Wired Booking to support the bands when they tour your city.
